Thursday, June 23, 2005

Torture or Interrogation?

Just when I thought I was finished with this whole sordid "Dick Durbin" thing, my friend ER, takes it up again. He has quite an interesting thread going on over at his place. But this time it's more about what constitutes torture than what Senator Dick said. And about whether what is happening in Gitmo is really happening.

I have so many points to make about this, that I am going to devote an entire post to the subject here, rather than continue to add comment after comment ad nauseum over there.

To begin with, let me refer you to the previous post I made about this on June 17, wherein I pointed out that the "FBI memo" he read his statement from was repudiated by a spokesman for the FBI. This is one fact of this case that hasn't received much attention from the press.

Next, although there may be some incidents of over-zealousness on the part of some prison guards at Gitmo, these incidents pale in comparison with the gross human rights abuses exhibited by the Nazi's, Pol Pot, or the Soviet Gulags.

The point was made over on ER's blog, that these prisoners were arrested seemingly for no reason, however there is no validity to that point. Those detainees were taken prisoner directly from the fields of battle, and they were trying to kill us. And, not to belabor that point, but they really haven't been arrested at all, but detained for the duration of the war. The reason for this is to prevent them from rejoining the fight against our people, and by so doing, prevent them from attacking America again. To say that we are detaining these people for no reason is patently ridiculous.

Those detainees that accuse our soldiers of torture and/or inhumane treatment should be taken with the proverbial grain of salt. There was recently an Al-Quaida training manual found in Iraq by American forces that outlines the procedure to be followed should an Al-Quaidan be captured and detained. It instructs the detainee to accuse his captors of abuse. That of course, should go without saying, after all, our own domestic prisons are full of prisoners that are innocent. Don't believe that? Just ask any of them, they'll tell you.

I am tired of discussing this. I really believe that whenever a senator or congressman of any party stands up in public and makes any kind of controversial statements, it's because his party is trying to distract the other party and America from the issues at hand. Especially a PREPARED statement, which was the case in this instance. Quite different from an off-the-cuff statement made at a birthday party.

I am sure I can "filibuster" at length about this subject further, but I have neither the time nor the inclination.


Garza said...

What else do the Dem's have to complain about. Unemployment is down, the economy is gaining strength, their entire list of talking points is non-valid. This is an issue they think they can gain ground with, but they have again under estimated the intelligence of the American people. Now the UN is jumping on the bandwagon, as if anyone cares what they think. They claim that they have reliable sources, yet they do not name any. Just another ruse to deflect attention away from their unsavory actions.

Daffy76 said...

I agree wholeheartedly with your statement about diversionary tactics.

By the way, I learned how (thanks to Garza) and linked you this afternoon.

We're getting to be quite a little community here.

Poison Pero said...

Is there any torture that would be off-limits to avoid another 9/11???

In other words, if we could get this information is cutting a guys fingers off limits, etc., etc.

Just a question.

Jj said...

I think that there are ways to find out information without torturing people. If you find the right people. I think that we Americans like to hold ourselves up as better than countries like Iraq, where they had a leader who tortured & killed people. In reality, I think we are better than that - but we need to live up to our higher standards & not sink to their level.

Mark said...

JJ, I almost tend to agree, however, the point I was making is: There was no torture! But even if there was, my feeling is this: If it stops terrorist attacks and/or leads us to Bin Laden, it is worth it.

Poison Pero said...

Again I must ask: Lets just say we caught Bin Laden.

Would it be ok to do anything imaginable to get information from him? --> I say yes. Anything!!

I know we are better people than the terrorists, but seeing another city repeat 9/11 isn't smart, and we aren't dealing with reasonable people.

But it's nice to know they wouldn't use brutal interogation on us.........They'd just chop our heads off.

Jj said...

You might be right. I'm just glad I'm not the one making that decision. How would you keep yourself from turning into an animal?

I suppose torture can get at info that mere asking might not - however, if folks have carte blanche to torture, it'll be a field day for any overly aggressive or violent person, and we have to be realistic here - those personalities often find their way into the armed forces.

Please don't misunderstand that as a rip on the armed forces. I fully support & honor them - unfortunately, even though most of them are heroic, a few are not in it for the right reasons, you know?

Poison Pero said...

Obviously there is a line between acting like a beast for the sake of being a beast, and doing your job in a beastly manner.

I'm just a lot less concerned about the way we treat those who wish to do us harm than I am about stopping the harm.

Sooner or later they will get off another blast here in the States (with who knows what), and everyone will be saying "why didn't we do more to stop it".

Marie's Two Cents said...

We have detained these freaks because they want us ALL dead!!! And they will stop at NOTHING to achieve that objective. Now they may have been picked up on the battlefield yes, but they wear NO uniform, and do not fall under Geneva. We have released several hundred already after we have obtained what we needed from them. And shipped them back to wherever they call home and what has happened to them since is NOT our responsability. I also say "Whatever It Takes" to prevent another 9-11 or worse. Some may be detained for the remainder of the war, and some may not. If they are still being considered a "Threat" to the US, by all means HOLD THEM for as long as it takes so they DONT go back and join those who would Love nothing better than to blow themselves into oblivion and take as many AMERICANS with them as they possibly can. As I understand it, some of the detainees dont want to leave, and those that have say they got better treatment at Gitmo than they ever have in thier own countries. Torture? Hardly!!!