Wednesday, February 16, 2011

What We Want

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." ~ Declaration of Independence

Although the ideological gap between Liberals and Conservatives is often seemingly impassable, in the end all of us really want the same thing:


It is merely the extent of that freedom on which we disagree.

We Conservatives want freedom from excessive governmental restraint. Conservatives want to be free to earn an income in whatever responsible way we choose. We want to be free to keep the money we earn and to do with it as we please. We want to choose our charities, and we want the right to refuse to donate our money to causes and organizations with which we disagree.

We want the freedom to be responsible for ourselves, and to hold ourselves accountable for our successes and our failures.

We want to retain our First Amendment rights: The freedom to worship in the church of our choice, or not worship at all, without being persecuted for that choice. We do not want to be told, by the government or anyone else, where and Whom we should worship.

We want to be permitted to speak our mind freely, without being berated, belittled, ridiculed, insulted, sued, banned, or even incarcerated for our thoughts.

We want the right to assemble together without fear of being shouted down, bullied, or assaulted by opposing factions, and certainly not by representatives of the government.

We want to be free to offer our suggestions about how we believe the government should govern without fear of some degree of retribution.

We want the right to bear whatever arms we deem necessary for the protection of our life, family, and possessions.

We want the freedom to own personal property and we desire a reasonable expectation that our right to our personal property be respected.

Oh, my God. I didn't think this would be this long.

For the sake of brevity, allow me to encapsulate:

Conservatives want to retain our basic freedoms of life, liberty, property, and the pursuit of happiness.

Liberals simply want freedom from personal responsibility.


Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Now THAT is one outstanding post!

Jim said...


Z said...

Liberals simply want freedom from personal responsibility.

perfect, really does seem like that.

Trader Rick said...

February 16, 2011 1:31 PM
Blogger Jim said...

" Tripe."

Really, "Jim"? Guess you would know, since most of your comments left here do fit that definition. Why do you soil this blog with your lame ideas, knowing that everybody here laughs at you? If it's as bad as you think, why not go elsewhere to leave your stupid comments. This blog is for thinking Americans who love their country, not cellar dwelling misfits who flip burgers at the local burger joint, and got fired for being incompetent slackers, and secretly wish they lived in a utopian welfare state that would take care of their every need, so they could watch TV all day and eat candy bars.

You didn't get a Valaentine, did you "Jim"? Poor boy.

Always On Watch said...

Freedom from responsibility is a type of enslavement -- just a sneakier type.

Always On Watch said...

Addendum: freedom from personal responsibility = adolescence.

Jim said...

Hey Dick, although my last comment did not contain any citations, it was certainly on point:

"Liberals simply want freedom from personal responsibility."

I was just going to say "bullshit", but decided "tripe" was a little more polite.

Mark's last sentence which I have quoted is lazy, lame, and false. In other words, bullshit.

Now you can continue to attack me with your feckless attempts at what I suppose is meant to be humor, but why don't you just fart. It would achieve the same results.

Trader Rick said...

"jim", you must be more of an idiot than even I thought, if you think my personal attacks against you are meant to be humorous. They are meant to hurt your feelings and maybe shame you into perhaps examining your positions with a little more view to sanity. You, and your ilk, are destroying this great country and therefore thinking, patriotic Americans despise you and your ideas,and so we attack you ruthlessly anyway and anywhere we can.

Luckily, your personal mental horsepower is really low, compared to your marxist leaders on the national scene, so you aren't much of a threat to our way of life, so in reality we feel more sorry for you than we actually despise you. In other forums I have much more intellectually powerful godless traitors to spar with...even tho I know reason and logic escapes them, it's fun to poke them and watch them squirm.

You live a miserable life if you live in this country and don't cherish her traditions, history and people, "jim,"as you portray in your comments here..

Don't get me started on how I really feel about the evil people who are in power in Washington that are ruining our civilization.

Mark has more heart, common sense, and brains in his little finger than you will ever have, "jim".

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Jim said...

Dick, you must be a sad, bitter old man.

Marshall Art said...

I think it would be more fun and profitable to examine why Jim thinks the last line is tripe OR BS. It might be an oversimplification, but isn't without some merit. Case in point, abortion. That is an issue largely supported by liberals/leftists/democrats/whatever. Abortion is the most heinous abdication of personal responsibility, life of the mother notwithstanding.

The current health care debate features the left pushing for universal coverage that relieves some of personal responsibility for their own health care concerns, be it financial or actual lifestyle choices and the ramifications thereof. Most on the right are satisfied with finding their own way for dealing with their personal health care issues.

The left typically views poverty issues as a result of something having been done to the impoverished to make them so, when more often than not, lack of preparation and proper spending habits and lifestyle decisions did more to impoverish people, at least in this country.

The left is more likely to view having as entitlement, as opposed to the right who believes one is only entitled to what one is able to acquire by virtue of his own abilities.

Whether every leftist thinks like this in every example presented is besides the point. The point is that in general, leftist policy reflects a notion of individuals not being responsible for the consequences of their own actions or inaction.

Trader Rick said...

The anonymous'jim' wrote:

Dick, you must be a sad, bitter old man.

I know you'll be glad to know I am quite the opposite, troll. I am partying my way thru retirement--My wife and I enjoy an active social life participating in Gator game watching parties, geocaching events, bike riding, bird watching hikes, going to the beach or dog park and partying at our favorite beach bars,etc., etc. Life is great in the Sunshine State!I am happy and the only bitterness in my heart is directed toward those trying to ruin the American Way of life, either because they are clueless morons, like you, or truly evil zookholes like B. Hussein Obama or whatever his name is.

We live in flip flops in God's Country and are Lovin' it!!!

My dogs bark at lizards on the deck, I bark at commies on the web!!!

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Rick, you have to remember that when liberals have no logical argument they resort to ad hominem attacks. Name-calling, swearing, that sort of stuff. After all, they need to silence the debate because they know in their conscience that they are morally corrupt.

Jim said...

Yo, Glenn. Read the posts and note who is the primary purveyor of ad hominem attacks instead of logical arguments.

And if you know about debate and fallacies, you know that hasty generalizations is one of them. I guess I should have written "fallacy" instead of tripe.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...


I fully understand that Rick is also using ad hominems, however, it was your very first comment that opened the door.

Mark's comment pretty much summed up the whole liberal philosophy, and that is NOT an overgeneralization.

Jim said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jim said...

"Mark's comment pretty much summed up the whole liberal philosophy, and that is NOT an overgeneralization."

Of course it is. It is a caricature of liberals by conservatives. It MAY represent some liberals, but not most. And I would challenge you to PROVE otherwise.

And EVEN if you could prove (and you can't) that liberals "want freedom from personal responsibility", you could NEVER prove that it sums up the "whole liberal philosophy."

I further challenge you to understand the definition of ad hominem attack. While my critique of Mark's suggestion was curt, it was not by any definition ad hominem. Instead, it was Dick who responded with ad hominems rather than debating the validity of my remark. Classic.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...


Ad hominem - to the man, i.e. attacking the person. I ain't stupid.

First, I never said you made ad hominem attacks, I gave that as one of several things: "ad hominem, Name-calling, swearing, that sort of stuff."

"Tripe" and "bullshit" fit.

Every law that liberals want, every whine they have as a general rule - i.e., the vast majority of liberals - is all about freedom from personal responsibility. Every part of their philosophy is about denying accountability to God. Abortion, homosexual behavior, redistribution of the wealth, etc, etc. No one is to take responsibility for their actions, let's just make another law and let Nanny Gov't take care of them.

It doesn't get any plainer.

Jim said...

"Every part of their philosophy is about denying accountability to God."

OK, that explains a lot. Thanks.

Trader Rick said...

OH "JIM"!!!! I don't believe you said that. I hope your face clears up in time for your yearbook photo before your graduation trip to burn in hell....

Mark, I was a staunch conservative and history buff in high school. In college we used to have heated debates on politics in the dorms and fraternity house. I quickly learned that it was of no use to argue logic or facts with an impassioned liberal teenager.

Now, in the twilight of my years, being all hairy with long teeth and having the ability to fly really really fast, I find these OLD liberals that act the same way they did when they were young.The difference now, is that they seem to HATE our American way of life.

Life experiences: earning a living, parenting, going to war (actually they avoided that) enduring love and heartaches, all the things that mature our outlook on the world, seemingly have had no effect on them, taught them no lessons. It's sad, in a way.They have no soul, no pride in country, all they want to do is tear down our civilization and build a bleak black smokey world of misery. Oh, well, so it goes.

Women want me
Fish fear me.
I can't help it
It's just the way I am.

Jim said...

"I hope your face clears up in time for your yearbook photo before your graduation trip to burn in hell...."

See Glenn. THAT'S ad hominem. That's Dick's debating points.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Yes Jim, I agree that is an ad hominem attack.

But unlike you, along with his attacks he at least has some good points about liberal - pardon me, progressive - philosophy.

Jim said...

No, he has no points. He often proffers the usual right-wing talking points without substantiation. There's no backing up of his attacks. Just talking points. I might as well be reading Coulter (God forbid).

In fact, I challenge you to read the comments on this particular post and find ONE actual point of debate by Dick.

Comment 1: Jim is a cellar dwelling misfit.

Comment 2: Jim lives a miserable life.

Comment 3: Jim is a troll and Dick likes dogs, beaches, bars, and big men in spandex pants, proving he is not a sad, bitter old man.

Comment 4: Jim is a pimply-faced high school senior, and Dick has no clue as to how much he and Jim have in common, apparently thinking that people can't share similar experiences and have different philosophies and beliefs.

Did you read any points that could be debated, much less defended?

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Here are points I gleaned:

1. “This blog is...not [for those who] secretly wish they lived in a utopian welfare state that would take care of their every need...”

This describes the typical “progressive” who loves the nanny gov’t

2. “my personal attacks against you... are meant to...maybe shame you into perhaps examining your positions with a little more view to sanity. You, and your ilk, are destroying this great country and therefore thinking, patriotic Americans despise you and your ideas,and so we attack you ruthlessly anyway and anywhere we can.”

This describes the progressives’ lack of thoroughly examining the issues, and by not doing so you are destroying this country with your immoral ideas.

3. “your marxist leaders on the national scene”

Excellent description of the political viewpoint of the liberals, the Demokrats.

4. “truly evil zookholes like B. Hussein Obama”

Perfect description of the President - he is indeed evil in his political view.

5. “I find these OLD liberals that act the same way they did when they were young.The difference now, is that they seem to HATE our American way of life.”

This truly sums up the progressive/liberal position. Always apologizing for the USA, denigrating the USA to the world, bowing before foreign dignitaries, sanctioning same-sex unions to undermine society, promoting the murder of children in the womb, etc, etc.

Jim said...

Well, certainly no arguing with that.

Susannah said...

Fabulous post, here!

(I see you've been busy here, Jim, dear. I wondered where you'd been keeping yourself the past several weeks.)

Keep up the great work, Mark!

Jim said...

S - You hadn't posted much in awhile, so I was waiting for something to pounce upon. :-)

Trader Rick said...

Maybe if "Jim"'s mom would buy him a Jack Russell to play with, it would distrat him from thinking dark thoughts..

Susannah said...

You're right Jim. I've been writing other things, & let the blog coast for a few weeks. I can always count on you to have your finger on the pulse, huh? ;)

(Mark, Mr. Jim's persistent presence here means you're doing something right. Keep it up!)

RICK!! You've met Otis! The absolute greatest little doggie who ever lived! ;) (My archives are chock full of stuff about him...)

Mark said...

Susannah and Rick. How ironic that you both mention your dogs. Yesterday, my Pug Suzie, died on the second day of a mysterious illness, before we could get her to her veterinarian appointment. She was 3 years old.

Susannah said...

Oh! So sorry to hear about Suzie. We lost our first Jack to kidney disease several years ago...but to lose her so young & suddenly! So sorry.

Jim said...

Thanks, Dick, but I have a dog.

Jim said...

And Mark, sorry to hear about Suzie. I've lost two dear pets in the last few years, so I can sympathize.

Trader Rick said...

Mark, Suzie is waiting for you at the Rainbow Bridge...

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